I have a Gemini GVXSUB15P Powered PA Subwoofer - 15 Inch, 400 Watts. I'm happy with it.
I think it weighs about 65 pounds. It's an 'active' or 'powered' subwoofer.
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'Passive' or 'unpowered' subwoofers are useless with the Passport. It's at about your stated price point. It's not flawless, but it definitely has the power to accompany a Passport 300. I use it for techno-contra dances with the caller and DJ plugged into a Passport 500, which is daisy-chained to a Passport 300, which has the subwoofer connected to it. So, in my case, the 400 watt subwoofer is providing the thump to go with 800 watts of higher frequency signals, and so far, I've never wanted to turn the subwoofer up past half volume while the rest of the system is at about 60% volume. There are things to think about with a subwoofer with the Passport that I've learned, so I'll try to pass this on so you can skip a lot of unhappy experimentation. This subwoofer, like most, is designed to be used in a different kind of setup than the Passport.
It still works fine with the Passport, but this class of subwoofer expects you to have a mixer that connects the left and right channel line-level outputs to the subwoofer via two XLR cables or 1/4' TS or TRS cables, then connects from the subwoofer to the powered speakers on left and right sides with two more XLR cables. The subwoofer expects to control the crossover frequency with an adjustment knob on the back of the subwoofer. The Passport has passive speakers, not powered ones, so you don't connect anything to the 'out' ports on the subwoofer. You just connect one 1/4' instrument cable from the 'sub out' port on the Passport to either of the two 'in' ports on the subwoofer. The crossover frequency is controlled by the Passport, not the subwoofer, but that crossover frequency adjustment on the subwoofer is still important, depending on your sound source. One DJ uses a professional-quality DJ controller with his computer so that the controller's sound card provides the sound.
It is clean, crisp and powerful with no noise to worry about, and with the subwoofer's crossover control set to about 50% of its range, this matches the crossover set by the Passport and it sounds great. Setting the crossover higher makes no appreciable difference in the sound because the subwoofer is simply allowing itself to play frequencies higher than the Passport is providing for it.
Another DJ uses software-only stuff with his low end PC laptop and the sound from that sound card has an ugly rumble at higher volumes at a frequency just above the thump that we love so much. I've learned that if I turn the crossover knob on the subwoofer down to 0% of its range, the rumble goes away, but I still get the thump. It makes a remarkable difference in the quality of the sound to do this. It's still not as good as with the professional board, but it's quite good for dancing. Other sound cards have a sweet spot between 0% and 50%. This requires experimentation.
The 'sub out' port on the Passport ignores the Master Volume control. That means that when you turn the master volume up and down on the Passport, the volume coming out of the subwoofer doesn't change. So, you have to get used to attending to the volume knob on the back of the subwoofer, near the floor. It's inconvenient, and it puts your ears near the back of the subwoofer, which is the ugliest sounding spot in the room. Big, ugly, muddy, possibly painful sound comes out the back of the subwoofer, especially at high volume levels.
People don't hear that anywhere else, so it's not a problem, except that you have to ignore what you hear while you make this adjustment. You walk out front.
You walk around back and make an adjustment based on what you heard, not on what you are hearing. Then you walk back out front to judge whether you have improved or worsened the sound.
The 'sub out' is affected by the volume levels of the individual channels, but not the Master Volume. Do not place the subwoofer near a back wall. Especially, do not place it near a corner of the room. That ugly sound that comes out of the back of the subwoofer grows to be a monster if it doesn't have a little space to diffuse itself into. Give it at least four or five feet from the wall to dissipate.
Don't let the surface effect magnify the sound. If you don't have a deep stage, place it off to the side and aim it inward, toward the diagonally opposite corner of the room. If possible, put the subwoofer behind or beside the performers. If you put it in front of the performers, they may not be able to hear themselves play.
Again, that sound coming out the back of the subwoofer really needs to be heard to be believed. It overpowers everything else. The front puts out this beautiful thump. The back is a saturated mess. This is especially true if the performers use a table and you decide to put the subwoofer in the convenient under-the-table spot. If they are standing behind the table, they won't be able to hear themselves scream, and the shock waves may eventually affect their fertility.
Put the subwoofer BESIDE the table, not under it. There are other decent subwoofers in that price range.
I picked this one because the price and weight were manageable, and once I tried it, I wasn't disappointed. I can't use it mindlessly.
It requires attention. It also takes up more space and has more weight than anything else in my setup. I use a hand truck for the subwoofer, when I can.
Nothing else is as back-breaking to haul around. But the Passport won't thump without it. It's a great PA, easy to transport, easy to set up and adjust, and it has such sweet, clear treble and mid-range. It handles lows quite well for acoustic music, but if you want electric thump, that sub out port really comes in handy. @ContraCaller, Thanks a lot for such a detailed reply. You the man!!! 65lbs for your sub GVXSUB15P?
That's going to be tough for me, I would have to go low on the weight. For FP-300, what's the required power wattage for the sub?
Any minimum wattage to get the thump? Also on the size of it like 10' or 12'? How important are these two parameters. I found few subs around $250 by Polk Audio, Klipsch and sony.
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Any specific brand that you would recommend? I have to go low on the weight and my max budget is $400. Thanks a lot again. Okay, the two most important factors here are: 1. Make sure it's 'active' or 'powered' subwoofer.
A passive or unpowered subwoofer is useless with the Passport 300. Make sure it is a subwoofer built for use with a PA system, not a home stereo sound system. Home systems are much more delicate, built to be placed once and left there for years, not hauled around to every gig you go to, and the wiring on home systems is not sturdy enough to survive feedback without immediate permanent damage.
Most PA systems will damage your hearing before they damage the sound coils. While feedback is unpleasant, it happens, and the gear needs to be able to take it.
You need a tough case and handles. Home systems don't have either. Gemini has a 12' version of this subwoofer that they say is 52.9 pounds: So, it's not a huge difference in weight, but that might be enough of a difference to you. It's 300 watts instead of 400 watts for my 15', which probably is enough to give you a thump that would match the Passport 300 fairly well.
Meanwhile, the 18' version is 103.6 pounds delivering 500 watts. That's why I didn't go for the 18' version.
I went for the biggest one I could afford (and lift). I had already tried using a 300 watt bass guitar amp as if it was a subwoofer. It was a bad idea, and it taught me the difference. I didn't want to scrimp on thump.
You have a smaller PA system. Assuming that the sound quality at lower pressure levels is still good, and one would assume that being made by the same company, this should be the case, then maybe the 300 watt, 12' subwoofer is the right one for you. ContraCaller, I have a question for you. I own a Passport 500 Pro, and I just ordered a Gemini GVX-SUB15P as well. I have seen several comments on various sites that suggest that the output of the sub when both the left and right input channels are connected is significantly more powerful than with just one input channel connected.
Do you have any experience with this? (I'm not really concerned about it being loud enough, as I'm not one for very loud/boomy bass - I'm mostly just curious. I could test it out for myself, but of course I'd have to get a special cable.) By the way, I really appreciate your posts - they are quite helpful.
I have only used the Gemini subwoofer with one input from one Passport, though in my setup, I have the sound sources going into a Passport 500 which has its Stereo Out (1/8' stereo port) patched into one of the two stereo input channels on a Passport 300. I then plug the Gemini into the Sub Out on the Passport 300, since the 500 does a better job of playing bass than the 300. The Gemini has been plenty loud with the one input, and this setup brings both Passports to a similar volume level in the treble, while the 500 still throws wattage toward playing bass.
It makes sense that if you are running a stereo mixer, the subwoofer would be louder with two inputs than with one. Consider that the Passport 500 is actually two 250 watt amps that acoustically combine to an equivalent of one 500 watt amplifier.
I typically use the Gemini with two Passports anyway, so I guess I could plug the Sub Out from each of them into the Gemini and the sub would probably get louder. So would the second Passport, since its wattage would be applied to the upper frequencies instead of being sucked away pushing bass. Likely, if I do that, the 500 will become quite a bit louder in the treble than the 300.
My limited understanding is that the tweeters on the 500 and 300 are the same, while the 500 has 2' more diameter for its mid-woofers. Likely, if the 500 and 300 show the same LED stack readings for volume and both are passing bass on to the subwoofer, the 500 will be almost twice as loud as the 300. By not connecting the 500's Sub Out port, I'm throttling back the 500's treble volume level by giving those speakers the work of playing bass notes, figuring that this helps fatten out the higher bass sound.
My imagination suggests that connecting both Passports to the Gemini would result in powerful lows, crisp highs, plenty of volume and less in the middle than I'm getting now. I'd probably have to turn the Gemini down to stop it from roaring in a not-altogether-musical way.
I already can't turn it up at my gigs, or people complain. Maybe it's just because my crowds often include cranky, older people (though the young bride at the wedding I played for wasn't happy until I unplugged the Gemini, cranked all the EQ to max treble and minimum bass, and had the volume level low enough that I realized later I could have done the whole gig with my three Mackey SRM 150 monitors and left the rest of my gear at home. I had no way to know. Audiences vary a lot in terms of what they want to hear.
There's a degree to which I'm looking to create a trademark sound - the clarity that I personally like and want people to expect when they hear that I'm doing sound. And there's a degree to which the customer is always right, and customers vary.
Meanwhile, back to your question, I suspect that if you use a splitter to go from the Sub Out on a lone Passport 500 into the two inputs on the Gemini, I don't think it would affect the sound from the Gemini much at all. You'd be splitting a signal and then recombining it. There's no net gain in that. If you have a stereo mixer and only plugged in one channel, then plugged in the other channel, you'd be increasing the signal strength when you plugged in the second channel because a stereo mixing board has two preamps in it - one for left and one for right. When those are combined, you've increased the signal in the subwoofer. Thanks ContraCaller, Hmm, I hadn't considered that using a splitter would tend to defeat the purpose of plugging into both channels (if doing so in the hopes of increasing the volume). As usual, your post is interesting and informative.
If I ever happen to run across a Passport 300 (or perhaps a 150) for a great price, I might pick it up for the versatility it would provide in conjunction with my 500, as I have noted from a number of your posts. I use the 500 primarily for my own jazz combo.
We use it when a club doesn't have their own P.A. Installed, but I'll tell you, there are places where I wish I could use my own P.A. Rather than the club's (even when significantly bigger & more expensive). We've received numerous comments that we sound best when running through our own P.A. We've been quite satisfied monitoring our sound simply through the P.A.
Speakers (placed slightly behind us & angled inward a bit), and have never had any feedback issues. Our singer does have a Mackie SRM 150 (which she only used in small rehearsals before, in lieu of the P.A.). We're now starting to use it for our live sound as well, and she loves it (we didn't appreciate what a great monitor it would be for her).
With the jazz combo I'm only planning to use the subwoofer for significantly larger venues (or outside gigs), where I'd be concerned that running the P.A. Much louder would endanger the 10' speakers. I'm also planning to use it for rock/blues gigs, where, even in smaller clubs, I might need to run the sound fairly loud. Wowsa: Sounds like the Passport suits you really well. I love how a subwoofer effectively increases the wattage of the overall system. The same system that suits smaller venues also suits larger ones just by adding a subwoofer.
I wrote a longer response to this that somehow didn't survive, and in the process, I figured out how to solve my little monitor problem better than I have up to now. I do sound for several different bands and a caller. Usually I'm the caller and my wife is in the band, but she's in three bands. I also do techno-contra with a DJ. The DJ and one of the bands are happy with the monitor playing the full mix including the caller.
All sound sources go into the Passport 500, its Stereo Out patches into a stereo channel on the Passport 300, and the Stereo Out on the Passport 300 goes to a Mackey SRM 150 daisy chained to however many SRM 150s are needed (I have three). The two other bands are pickier and they whine if they have to hear the caller. They whine if the house speakers are behind them because then it's too loud. They whine if the house speakers are in front of them because they can't hear treble clear enough if they don't have a monitor and they don't want the caller in the monitor. They want music-minus-one while the house gets the full mix. This has been a problem.
I could spend several hundred dollars for a mixer that includes a separate monitor mix, and lose all the controls I love so much in the Passport. I've already tried putting the band through the 500 and patching that into the 300 and adding the caller there, and using the house speakers on the 500 as monitors by putting them behind the band. It worked for the house, but the band whined when the 500 speakers were behind them or in front of them because they wanted monitors and they wanted them to not include the caller, and if I patched from the 500 to the SRM 150s, I didn't have anything left to patch back into the 300 without a splitter. I think I used a splitter once and it worked okay.
But another option would be to go from the Stereo Out of the 500 into the SRM 150s daisy chained to give each musician a monitor, and then run an XLR cable from the last SRM 150 into the 300, either with the output on the SRM 150 set to mic level, or with the Pad button set on the Passport 300. I'd lose the stereo image of the keyboard in the two speakers for the 300, but I'd still have it in the 500 speakers, which I'd set farther outboard anyway, since I want the caller in the center speakers for the dancers near the music. This is why I write so much. It helps me think.
Hey Contra, Thanks for all the info you provided here. I am considering a Passport 500 Pro system for small band use - electric and acoustic - and some dj work. I would like to get a powered subwoofer for it. It sounds like your Gemini works but is a bit 'cobbled together' in the sense that you cannot change the volume from the Passport and you use only one input, with an adapter I think I read in one of your posts.
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Can you suggest a better (technical) match for a subwoofer for the system? Thanks, Willie, Maine, USA. The volume level of the signal that goes to the sub-out port on the Passport is independent of the Master Volume on the Passport. That's just how it's wired. There are technical reasons for it, but it doesn't matter what powered subwoofer you use, you'll have to control the volume of the subwoofer at the subwoofer. While I have not done a survey of different powered subwoofers, I think the basic features of the Gemini are pretty common to the others that are out there. Most take a stereo input and internally split it between treble and bass (the 'crossover'), often with an adjustment knob for the crossover frequency.
All frequencies below the crossover point get monoized and played through the subwoofer. All frequencies above the crossover point get passed through to XLR ports intended to feed powered speakers. All those 'in' and 'out' ports are designed to function with 'line level' signals. The Passport was designed around a different system concept, where the crossover happens within the powered amp at a fixed frequency (you can't adjust), and it gets passed out in mono through a 1/4' TS port. The Passport design is compatible with the Gemini design. It just has some redundancies.
There's an amp at each end of the 1/4' TS patch cable (one in the Passport and one in the Gemini). Both have a crossover frequency (one is adjustable and the other isn't). Both monoize stereo input for the lower frequency and leave higher frequencies in stereo to go out to stereo speakers. The crossover in the Passport defeats the Gemini's pass-through to active speakers because the Gemini doesn't get any high frequency sound. I wouldn't even mess with the adjustable crossover on the Gemini if I didn't have to work with a rumbling, noisy sound card on the computer of the DJ I work with a lot. I'd crank the Gemini up to its highest frequency for crossover and let the Passport control everything.
What I'm really doing when I lower the Gemini's crossover is filtering out the noise created by the DJ's sound card. It's like a notch filter taking out the upper end of the low frequencies.
The Passport is pumping out treble and midrange and low-midrange and passing an ugly, rumble and a thumping bass to the Gemini. I use the Gemini's crossover adjustment to kill the rumble and let the thumping bass through. When I used it with my step-son's higher-quality sound card in his higher-end DJ control board, I cranked the Gemini crossover frequency up to it's 'noon' setting, which is right about at the frequency that the Passport's crossover is tuned to, and it sounded great. With your live band, that shouldn't be an issue, since you probably aren't working with the inexpensive sound cards commonly found in business-grade Windows laptops.
There may be powered subwoofers out there that are designed to be used with the Passport and other systems like it. I just haven't seen them. I wish Fender made such a beast. If they have, they certainly haven't put a lot of marketing resources into making them easy to know about.
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